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Where do you draw the line on originality? Cast your vote!

(i.e. ALL Minis made from 1959 to date)

What sort of Mini owner are you? Cast your vote!

Category 1 - Anything goes as long as the driving experience is improved.
0
No votes
Category 2 - I prefer that my Mini sticks to the original specification.
1
7%
Category 3 - My preference lies somewhere between Category 1 and Category 2.
14
93%
 
Total votes: 15

User avatar
GrahamWRobinson
Posts: 499
Joined: 11 Nov 2016, 00:15
Itabuna, Bahia
Brazil

Where do you draw the line on originality? Cast your vote!

Postby GrahamWRobinson » 03 Feb 2017, 20:21

 
I’ve asked this question before on another forum but where do you draw the line on originality? As I see it there are three types of Mini enthusiast.

Category 1. Those whose main interest is in driving the car to get the most out of it. What the car then looks like isn't of too much concern as long as the end result is a better driving experience as far as they are concerned. If that means putting in a bigger engine, fitting larger wheels, ditching the old points distributor for an electronic one, lowering the car, fitting uprated suspension, etc., etc, then they make those changes.

Category 2. At the other end of the scale and this is the second category, what the car looks like is paramount. What you can see and what you can't see HAS to be as near as damn it as it was when it left the factory. This sort of car is primarily for display at car shows, for entry into concours competitions and even for display in a museum. The driving experience doesn't really come into it. That's not to say that the car isn't driven but the clock doesn't show many miles each year.

Category 3. (A combination of the above) Those who want the best of both worlds. They want the car to look right, to look original. Whether it is or not isn't that important to them. As long as the impression is that it is original they are happy. However they also enjoy driving the car and pushing it a bit on the odd occasion.

We are all different. Live and let live. Who is to argue how you spend your money? You spend it in the way that suits you. OK, so where do you spend your money? Which category of ownership do you fall into? How about a poll to find out? Of course you might like to offer your own thoughts on originality.

Graham



Kiwi Craig
Posts: 1
Joined: 04 Jan 2019, 23:19
Hamilton
New Zealand

Re: Where do you draw the line on originality? Cast your vote!

Postby Kiwi Craig » 05 Jan 2019, 03:56

I also think the 3rd option.
My 65 Cooper S has 1 1/2'' SU's, modified head, mild cam, LCB exhaust, Keith Dodd 1.5:1 rockers, lightened flywheel.
Most of these mods are "out of sight" and the others only visible to the expert eye.
These I consider would be " Period Modifications " and in my view acceptable, though I am sure others would not agree!!!

User avatar
GrahamWRobinson
Posts: 499
Joined: 11 Nov 2016, 00:15
Itabuna, Bahia
Brazil

Re: Where do you draw the line on originality? Cast your vote!

Postby GrahamWRobinson » 12 Mar 2017, 12:56

Having posed the question and then read the comments posted over the last few weeks it's quite clear where our preference lies. Have a look at the poll result as it currently stands.

Where do you draw the line..JPG

Click image to enlarge


I take it that the vast majority of us (on this forum at least) do not want the car to stray too far away from how it left the factory but we do want more performance and a better driving experience. I won't argue with that. Does anyone disagree?


Graham

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Spider
Posts: 24
Joined: 23 Jan 2017, 08:42
NSW (Usually!)
Australia

Re: Where do you draw the line on originality? Cast your vote!

Postby Spider » 11 Mar 2017, 21:02

Great topic and I think at times across the various forums this is often lost and sometimes confused between members - which leads to misunderstandings!

For me personally, I can appreciate and respect the factory original cars. Probably more so the unrestored, but only if in great to pristine condition, though one that's been properly restored is also brilliant. I do have a couple of Minis that fall in to that 'category'.

Even though I can appreciate the cars as they 'were' and even have some, my greatest enjoyment comes from 'improving the breed'. For the most part, I feel the 'formula' of the Mini and in particular, the Moke is good to great, in so many areas, it's 'execution' leaves a lot to be desired. I would think it fair to say that's due to a number of factors, some being the technology of the day, cost and of course the need to mass produce them. In this last point, for example, A 'Rivnut' is streets ahead of a Self Tapper, but the latter is so much faster and cheaper to supply and install, so, we ended up with a lot of self tappers!

I do get great satisfaction from identifying an issue with these cars, then setting about designing and making a replacement 'widget', while keeping the basic formula the same. Our Big Wheel Mokes are full of engineering compromises that rob reliability and longevity from them, most of these I recon I've now got sorted.

Some here will also know that I do also like to push the boundaries as well.
Old Mokers never die, they just smell that way!

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MAB
Posts: 432
Joined: 20 Dec 2016, 22:55
London/Surrey
England

Re: Where do you draw the line on originality? Cast your vote!

Postby MAB » 14 Feb 2017, 23:28

I like to see the standard cars but my favourite are the ones with some period mods probably because my impressionable years were in the late 1960's and early 1970's when my brothers and myself owned modded Mini's as our first cars and went on to racing in 850cc free formula special saloons and Mini 7. I appreciate the engineering that goes into modern engine swaps like the Honda Vtec which add variety but agree Mini's should really have an A-Series....but then I have always been a great admirer of the racing Mini's of the 1970's which ran Ford and Imp engines on Mini gearboxes especially the Mini Ford BDA versions. 8-)

Irlmin
Posts: 2
Joined: 11 Feb 2017, 17:07
Cork
Ireland

Re: Where do you draw the line on originality? Cast your vote!

Postby Irlmin » 12 Feb 2017, 16:51

Cooperman wrote:Like most on here, I am strongly with the 'period modifications only' group.
I test drove a Mini with a 1.8 Honda V-Tec and it was simply horrible. Sure, it was blisteringly quick in a straight line, but it didn't feel like any sort of Mini I have ever driven, and I have driven a huge number since 1961. If it hasn't got an A-Series engine it is no longer a Mini.
I wonder why there is a small cult who want to fit modern engines into the classic Mini. I mean, you don't get people fitting 3-litre BMW diesel engines into E-Type Jags or Ford Zetec units into Healey 3000's.


I am basing my opinion having built and driven a 160 bhp turbo mini ,a supercharged 150 bhp one, lots of 1380 cars in various states of tune and now my favourites are the period modded 998 Cooper and the 130 bhp Cooper S on split webers .as regards Hydro or not I am afraid as good as hydro is I am afraid its dry for me on anything more than a std mini 850 or 1000 . agreed just decent cones and good dampers with alignment setup correctly is the best setup , tried and tested . I have driven a few with 'coils' and 'Coilovers and all I can say is 'whats all that about ? . total waste of money and time .
G

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Supersonic
Posts: 314
Joined: 21 Dec 2016, 09:48
County Down
Northern Ireland

Re: Where do you draw the line on originality? Cast your vote!

Postby Supersonic » 12 Feb 2017, 16:19

Irlmin wrote:I personally think originality is fine if you don't intend to drive the mini .My personal choice is to include some 'period' mods and of course some degree of modernisation like unleaded heads and decent brake components etc . if you can improve the driving experience without compromising the 'original' design I am all for it . some of the best minis I have driven have been close to original with some mods as above . we built a mid engined 2.0 l Z car mini for a customer some years ago with 255bhp and even though it was set-up as well as possible it was still pointless as it was just too short and undriveable in the wet .as far as I am concerned the best 'fun' to be had in a mini is a decent 998 Cooper mk1 or 2 with some mods --you really have to work to keep the momentum up and its so rewarding .
G


Similar view to me G, I recall some years ago Bill Richards saying that a well set-up A-series engine in a Mini beats all the Z-car engine changes and he also said the balance is never right. If that is Bill's assessment, it is good enough for me.

Welcome to the mincooperforum by the way G :D

Alan

Irlmin
Posts: 2
Joined: 11 Feb 2017, 17:07
Cork
Ireland

Re: Where do you draw the line on originality? Cast your vote!

Postby Irlmin » 12 Feb 2017, 16:09

I personally think originality is fine if you don't intend to drive the mini .My personal choice is to include some 'period' mods and of course some degree of modernisation like unleaded heads and decent brake components etc . if you can improve the driving experience without compromising the 'original' design I am all for it . some of the best minis I have driven have been close to original with some mods as above . we built a mid engined 2.0 l Z car mini for a customer some years ago with 255bhp and even though it was set-up as well as possible it was still pointless as it was just too short and undriveable in the wet .as far as I am concerned the best 'fun' to be had in a mini is a decent 998 Cooper mk1 or 2 with some mods --you really have to work to keep the momentum up and its so rewarding .
G

User avatar
DavyBl
Posts: 185
Joined: 23 Dec 2016, 14:44
Lancashire
England

Re: Where do you draw the line on originality? Cast your vote!

Postby DavyBl » 12 Feb 2017, 15:49

Cooperman wrote. Like most on here, I am strongly with the 'period modifications only' group.
I test drove a Mini with a 1.8 Honda V-Tec and it was simply horrible. Sure, it was blisteringly quick in a straight line, but it didn't feel like any sort of Mini I have ever driven, and I have driven a huge number since 1961. If it hasn't got an A-Series engine it is no longer a Mini.
I wonder why there is a small cult who want to fit modern engines into the classic Mini. I mean, you don't get people fitting 3-litre BMW diesel engines into E-Type Jags or Ford Zetec units into Healey 3000's.


Of course I'm with you all the way! I once drove a Starlet Turbo'd mini and of course it had ridiculous drive shaft lengths and suffered massive torque steer getting the power down and that was at 130 bhp. Later with modifications it went out to 180 bhp, furthering the nightmare I imagine. As you say most of these type of modifies are only any use in a straight line, 'slip road snipers' I call them and are not true minis or reflect what the mini was renowned for. The other question to ask is, if there are so good why do so many come on to the market place and are constantly changing owners?

User avatar
Island Blue
Posts: 199
Joined: 22 Dec 2016, 13:08
Sussex
England

Re: Where do you draw the line on originality? Cast your vote!

Postby Island Blue » 12 Feb 2017, 15:42

Nick wrote:Category 3 for me as well.
Where do folk stand on a hydrolastic car converted to dry? is this a modification too far ?
Is it as fundamental as changing the engine type ?
What are your thoughts ?

Nick :)

Category 3 for me too.
Hydro to dry - okay if it's to cones, even those coils that fit instead of rubber cones are okay by me - no visible change.
Changing the engine - also no problems if it's an A-series, exotic heads are also fine by me.
Modern tyres - good idea. Modern rubber (such as gaiters, dust covers and boots) - not a good idea ;)
Electronic ignition, fine although I've not got around to it yet.
I guess if it's your car it's okay, especially if it's reversible.
"The public don't know what they want; it's my job to tell them" - Alec Issigonis

Nick
Posts: 23
Joined: 08 Feb 2017, 18:56
Stoke-on-Trent
England

Re: Where do you draw the line on originality? Cast your vote!

Postby Nick » 12 Feb 2017, 15:28

Category 3 for me as well.
Where do folk stand on a hydrolastic car converted to dry? is this a modification too far ?
Is it as fundamental as changing the engine type ?
What are your thoughts ?

Nick :)


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